network problem

[WindsHellFire]

Hi ppl :D
I'm trying to make a static networkconnection to my router
I have windows xp
so i do configuration-->network connections-->local area connection--->
properties baddaboombaddabing
it's set to DHCP.
I fill in the ip, default gateway, dns server, subnetmask, secondary dns server
the whole thing perfectly
but when i close properties i computer ends up in an endless thoughtpattern rateling and screaming
after ten minutes still nothing :confused:
does anybody knows why and can you help me! :zzz:

[jaketo]

Yo WindsHellFire

Could you be just a little more specific about what happens after you close properties and I might be able to help? ;)

[WindsHellFire]

nothing happens
you hear HD activity and that is it
you can wait 5 min or 10 or 15 but it wont close the properties
it doesnt get processed

[Vaekor]

nothing happens
you hear HD activity and that is it
you can wait 5 min or 10 or 15 but it wont close the properties
it doesnt get processed

Sounds to me like there's a corrupt file somewhere in the networking controls... I would probably uninstall and reinstall that part of the OS. jaketo, do you have a better idea?

[FirePenguins]

I got no ideas but I know I had a lot of trouble with my network and it just took a couple days of trying around with different settings before I could get it to work, didn't have your problem though, sorry.

Don't get too discouraged yet!! :banana:

[WindsHellFire]

actually i just have a new inet connection and i got my first router.
so now i have to do portforwarding. on portforward.com they said i needed to get a static IP becus with dynamic IP the IP may suddenly change.
I dont understand how that could happen becus i myself have to set the IP in the router. but anyways i got disencouraged and left the issue
i still dont really got the forwarding under control but i can play my games so i guess it works

[Vaekor]

actually i just have a new inet connection and i got my first router.
so now i have to do portforwarding. on portforward.com they said i needed to get a static IP becus with dynamic IP the IP may suddenly change.
I dont understand how that could happen becus i myself have to set the IP in the router. but anyways i got disencouraged and left the issue
i still dont really got the forwarding under control but i can play my games so i guess it works

The directions on PortForward.com says that your IP address of your computer relative to your router should be static... but from what you're saying, if you had to type the IP address in when you set up the router, it already is static. Your IP address of your router relative to the internet does not need to be static.

It sounds like you set up an IP address in the router which it is trying to enforce on the computer. When you try to configure it in Win XP, the computer is trying to go against what the router is trying to enforce (even if it's the same number!), and is probably causing the lock-up.

You've got the games working, the router working... don't worry about the Win XP settings. It seems redundant and prone to cause collisions.

[WindsHellFire]

The directions on PortForward.com says that your IP address of your computer relative to your router should be static... but from what you're saying, if you had to type the IP address in when you set up the router, it already is static. Your IP address of your router relative to the internet does not need to be static.

It sounds like you set up an IP address in the router which it is trying to enforce on the computer. When you try to configure it in Win XP, the computer is trying to go against what the router is trying to enforce (even if it's the same number!), and is probably causing the lock-up.

You've got the games working, the router working... don't worry about the Win XP settings. It seems redundant and prone to cause collisions.
no the internal must be static
what u say about that enforcing is indeed stupid i know for sure i typed the same IP as the router has
maybe if i turn of the dhcp-lease in the router (i dont know if that is possible) xp will work with it
it's all good now but still ya got that feeling of the need to conquer xp :HARR:

[jaketo]

Sorry I've not replied earlier, been working all weekend.

I've been installing an IP based phone system for 200 users across two sites, and ironically wasted two hours today because we decided against using DHCP to assign IP addresses to the phone handsets, and as one of my team managed to manually set one of the handsets to the same IP address of the router interface that connects the phone system to the rest of my LAN, I couldn't get it to connect because Avaya 4602 handsets do not make good routers, and that's where all the traffic was going, not to the router as intended. :D

The lesson to learn from that is that DHCP is a good thing in the correct context! ;)

Firstly WHF, if you haven't already done so, go and read my post in this thread (http://www.phoenixrising.at/forums/showthread.php?t=13736) - that should help clarify a few things about IP addressing for you (I'm not bragging about my post, but it did take me hours to write it and I'm quite pleased with it, and some of the stuff I'll say here will assume you've read it!)

I've got a good idea what the problem was in your original post, but I'll get back to that in a while. Rather than chilling with GTA:SA for a few hours, I guess I'll write some more about IP instead ;)

(g33k mode engaged....)

Firstly, make no mistake, connecting stuff together with IP addressing can be a complete sod - it needn't be, but it usually is, and the more stuff you have, the more of a sod it is likely to be, mainly because there's just so many fiddly little bits that you have to get just right or it won't work at all, and one 'won't work at all' usually looks pretty much like any other 'won't work at all' regardless of the cause.

Also, forget port-forwarding for now. You might need that for some stuff but not for basic end-to-end connectivity such as surfing the web. Port forwarding is only required to get specific internet enabled applications to work, such as ftp and web serving, some multplayer online games and some IM tools. I'll mention that later also.

When you're using a router to connect a PC to the Internet, you will effectively have two seperate IP routes - one between the PC and the router, and one between the router and the Internet, and yep, the router will have two IP addresses, one on the Internet-facing interface and one on your LAN interface. Each of these needs to be configured seperately.

Firstly, configure the router to connect to the Internet - this will be pretty much outside of your control as it will be dictated by your ISP and will probably be via DHCP which will set the Internet-facing IP address for you. Hopefully if it's a fairly modern the router will have a nice comforting wizard where you need only type in your username and password for your ISP account and after a few moments of negotiation they'll be a funky little green 'connected' LED glowing softly and reassuringly on your router. If there's no wizard, hopefully the manual should be clear enough.

(WHF. what make/model router do you have?)

Now comes the fun part, the part you do have control over (thus ironically, the part that's easy to get horribly wrong), which is configuring the LAN interface of your router and your PC.

Here we have options -

If your router has LAN DHCP server capability and you're not comfortable with configuring static IP addressing on your PC, use the DHCP server. This will need to be configured on the router (hopefully they'll be a nice wizard again) but what you'll effectively be doing is to tell the DHCP server on the router that it has control over a range of IP addresses, and to allocate these when a DHCP client (such as your PC) asks it nicely for one. You would also tell it some other stuff such as subnet mask, default gateway, DNS servers etc, which would also be passed to the DHCP client when it's allocated an IP address from the DHCP server on the router.

Then just configure your PC to 'Obtain an IP address automatically', and everything should be just fine (if the DHCP server is correctly and fully setup, the 'Obtain an IP address automatically' checkbox on a DHCP client could say 'Just configure all the network settings for me, would ya?')

The comment from Portforward.com ('on portforward.com they said i needed to get a static IP becus with dynamic IP the IP may suddenly change.
') is technically correct because when you setup port forwarding you'd need a source and destination IP address for each forwarding rule, and if your PC were suddenly allocated a different IP from the DHCP server the forwarding rules would stop working. In reality though (refer to my other post) this is very unlikely to happen. Two ways to ensure this doesn't happen though, if you can set them on the router, is a) if you only have one PC on your LAN, only configure the DHCP server to manage 1 IP address, thus your PC will only ever get that one, and/or b) set the IP lease to never expire, or otherwise to as high a time as you can.

Setting your PC for a static IP address is actually just as easy as using DHCP if you know what to type where. I'll keep this failry simple and assume that no-one's going to want to setup more than 253 PCs behind their router! ;-)

The subnet mask is used to dictate how many other PCs on the physical LAN a PC can talk to directly. If you set the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0, your PC will be able to talk directly to any other IP device on the physical LAN with the same first three octets in the IP address.

Example - If you PC has an IP address of 192.168.0.6 and a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, it will be able to talk directly to any IP device with an IP address in the range of 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.0.255.

Your router should already have an IP address on the LAN interface, e.g. a.b.c.d (with a good chance that it'll be 192.168.0.1), so set the IP address of your PC to a.b.c.n (where n is anything between 0 and 255, but not 0 or 255 themselves, and definitely not the same value as on the router! Doing this would give you duplicate IP addresses on the same LAN. This is A Very Bad Thing. This is how people (ok, me) can waste two hours trying to configure a bloody telephone to route IP traffic between network segments! ;)) and the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0. This will put your PC on the same network segment as your router (but with a unique IP address!) which means they can now meaningfully and happily exchange datagrams!

Example - If your router has a LAN IP address of 192.168.0.1, set your PC to 192.168.0.2, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. If you add another PC, set it to 192.168.0.3 etc etc etc.

The Default Gateway is a very easy thing to understand. When an IP device is trying to find another IP device, it will first of all look on the same network segment as itself. If it can't find it there, the PC will then pass the request to it's Default Gateway, which will then pass the request further afield to try and find the destination. In the scenario of one PC behind a router like we have here, the Default Gateway setting on the PC should be set to the LAN interface IP address of the router. Thus when your PC tries to find an IP device not on your LAN e.g. a website, it will pass the request to its Default Gateway e.g. the router, which will then contact the detination on your PC's behalf.

Example - If your router has a LAN IP address of 192.168.0.1, set your PC to 192.168.0.2, with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. and a Default Gateway of 192.168.0.1.

For the DNS server settings, it's possible that your router might be able to handle this for you as well, but what I prefer is to configure my PCs to use my ISP's DNS servers directly - just find out from your ISP the IP addresses of their DNS servers and type them in.

WHF, to me it sounds like in your original post that you've got one of the settings wrong, perhaps the subnet mask is too broad or too tight, or you've set the IP address on your PC to the same IP address as your router (which, if we remember, is A Very Bad Thing! ;))

Try the steps I've suggested above and see how you get on.

I'm guessing that you've got a game or similar that says it needs port-forwarding to work correctly which is why you're trying to set a static IP address on your PC? As above, it'll still work if your PC is set to DHCP - when talking about dynamic or static IP addresses, that's only referring to the allocation methodolgy, there's nothing different between a statically or dynamically allocated IP address (except obviously it's value!) Once you've got the connectivity working, you'll then be able to setup the port-forwarding according to the Game's manufacturers instructions.

For reference, a DHCP server cannot enforce an IP address onto a PC, it will only allocate it if the PC is configured as a DHCP client and requests it. If you set your PC with a static IP address and leave the router running as a DHCP server, it will all work correctly without any problems whatsoever.

I hope that helps! Let me know how you get on and feel free to ask more questions if you need to!

Cheers

J

[WindsHellFire]

thx m8
i didnt read ur post yet but now i have :D
ok
so same IP is bad u said (maybe u can explain why becus i read in a pc magazine that in a network all should have same IP)
but it helped becus router has ip xx.xx.x.1 and i now did on my computer ip xx.xx.x.2 and now errors or stuckness at all.
my router is a davolink dv0201amr btw(but no inet connection)
for adsl2 inet television and voip
i dont have the voip yet though
anyways
i went to the router again with IE before i set up the static and it had in the setup the router IP and subnet
and under that DHCP lease wich is xx.xx.x.2 - xx.xx.x.256
so then i did the static IP 2
but as i said not connection
the lease is every 24 hours btw wich i can change
now i can only make the lease between IP x.2 and x.6 wich is the lease
can you help me :help: get this static thing through??

EDIT: is the server not well? im trying to give u rep but it wont work
EDIT: lol ok you got the rep :D

[jaketo]

If you read a PC magazine that said that then that magazine needs to go out of print, very soon :D

It more probably said that all PCs on the same physical LAN need to be on the same subnet, but with different IP addresses in the same range (for a LAN of 254 IP devices or less)

Duplicate IP addresses on the same LAN are A Very Bad Thing because when one IP device is trying to talk to another, it uses the IP address of the destination device. If two devices have the same IP address, the first device will not know which one to talk to and Bad Things will happen.

Think of it like this - if your LAN was a street full of houses and two houses had the same house number, the postman would be confused and not know which house to deliveer the mail to. Make sense?

Sounds like your along the right lines though. BTW - if your router was actually offering a DHCP scope of xx.xx.x.2 - xx.xx.x.256, there's something very wrong as 255 is the maximum! ;)

One way to kinda cheat when setting up a static address on a PC is to set it as a DHCP client ('Obtain an IP address automatically'), reboot it and then from a command prompt run the following command -

ipconfig /all

which will show you your PC's current IP settings from the DHCP server. It'll look something like this -

C:\Documents and Settings\Jake>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : satan
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Marvell Yukon 88E8053 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 01-12-3F-4B-FE-B5
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 166.172.0.5
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 166.172.0.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 1.2.3.4
. . . . . . . . . . . .: 1.2.3.5

Make a note of the IP Address, Subnet Mask, Default Gateway and DNS Servers and use these values to configure your PC with a static IP address.

Let me know how you get on!

Cheers

J

[WindsHellFire]

yes ok dude i know what an IP is i just didnt think it through
btw i've been waiting for ages for your request :D
thx im gonna trie it out now but still there must be an other way

[WindsHellFire]

OMG OMG OMG OMG :D :D :D :D
thx m8 problem solved

[jaketo]

yes ok dude i know what an IP is i just didnt think it through

Sorry mate, no offence meant. When I write stuff like this I try and keep it as simple as possible because I have no idea of the technical level of everyone that might read it, so sometimes I might state the obvious a few too many times ;)

Good news that it's working :D

[WindsHellFire]

is it possible to change the router settings so that it doesnt give a lease ranging from x.2 to x.6 ?

[WindsHellFire]

thank u :closed: