Actual Benefits of Dynamic IP

[smoran]

I was just wondering, are there any actual non-koc enhancing reasons to have a dynamic IP? I mean there has to be a reason to have them in the first place, so there must be. I guess I was wondering what it was. :P

[colleca]

well you cant be IP banned for one thing on any site so you could spam the lot....over....and over....and over again. :p

I know you said Non-KoC....but i want one so i can click multiple lists of DDL.

How do you get one anyway?

[Johnnyk]

im pretty sure all dial-up connections are dynamic, its not an advantage or a disadvantage, just different. cable connections have the same IP cause its the same line all the time, and dial-up you connect to a different server at ur ISP every time.

so yeah. i dont think there are any advantages or disadvantages.

[Slayer_of_the_Immortals]

I was just wondering, are there any actual non-koc enhancing reasons to have a dynamic IP? I mean there has to be a reason to have them in the first place, so there must be. I guess I was wondering what it was. :P
I would imagine dynamic IPs would be easier and cheaper for internet companies, cause they don't have to keep up with who should have what and all. I would imagine you'd have better secerty with a dynamic IP, as yer never at the same place for two long...

[pilferer]

smoran from my understand not really.. dynamics can be a pain for web hosting too..

[Kalki]

From an ISPs point of view you can have 300 customers using 150 ips if they're not online all at once.

The way it most often work is that a connecting client asks the dynamic host control protocol server for an IP. That IP is leased for a certain period of time. Most common for dial-up connections are that you get a new lease each time you connect.

For you as the end user the positive things are that it does make it somewhat harder for hackers if they were to target you specifically (unlikely), but them saving your IP wouldn't do much good.

Negative things include the fact that you can't access your computer unless you know the IP, which would change each time. There are however dynamic DNS services that solve that.

What else...

Can't think of anything right now... Firewall/VPN setups, um...
I'm sure jaketo will add to the list :P

[jaketo]

I'm sure jaketo will add to the list :P

* jaketo is sure that he will quietly watch this thread develop for a while before he posts the link to the essay he wrote on dynamic IP addressing a while back ;)

* jaketo then remembers that he was planning to update that essay just for the hell of it and resolves to do that shortly! :D

[smoran]

Meh I remember your essay jake, and I remember thinking "god what the hell am I doing reading all this." and most of it didn't make sense to me. I thought this to be a fairly basic question. Kalki did an awesome job of answering it, everybody else also helped :P so unless you have anything to add, (besides the essay link) feel free to close this when you want.

[emike55]

Meh, I have a severe dislike of dynamic IP's, hopefully as soon as IPv6 takes off everybody will have a static IP. It is a severe disadvantage to any web administrator that they are unable to successfully ban somebody from their website without doing a block ban, which depending on the circumstances can lose thousands of possible customers. Also a static IP helps a lot when you want to experiment with a websever at your home.

If you have a dynamic IP the only thing that is beneficial to yourself personally is ban dodging. The ISP advantages were already discussed...though it is easier for an ISP to assign static IP's since they wouldn't have to run a dhcp server, however the disadvantage to this is that it is more complicated for the end computer user since most OS and routers are set up to use dhcp from the beginning and there is also no hassle of losing your IP address and gateway your suppose to be using.

Basically dynamic IP is easier for the end user and slightly more complicated for the ISP and static IP works the other way, easier for the ISP but harder for the user. I also believe this is the reason why many non-business ISP's use dynamic IP because it is less of a hassle for computer illiterate people, that and they don't have to own as many IP's making it cheaper for them also.

[jaketo]

I thought this to be a fairly basic question.

Ok, forgive me for being facetious, I just love to read different people's explanations of stuff like this. So far I'd say we've had two posts that are along the right lines, one makes a valid point, and one is laughably way off the mark ;)

Yes Smory it was a very basic question but is very specific in its scope.

Assuming you're referring to Internet traffic, bear in mind that most people that access the internet through an ISP won't have the choice of whether to have a dynamic IP address or not. Unless their ISP specifically offers static IP addresses, they will have a dynamic IP address.

However, by one of those great ironies of life (known in this instance as 'IP address leasing') most people with a dynamic IP address from an ISP will probably always have the same IP address whilst they stay with that ISP, thus seeming to all intents and purposes to have a static IP address, useful for web admins trying to block errant users.

The simplest answer to your question Smory (from an administrator's point of view) is 'centralisation and ease of IP addressing management'.

[scope3]

I think it's good for security reasons...thats the only plus i can think of.. and it's hard for people to map out ur'e system.

[magiaaron]

Static IPs are AWFUL!!! It just sits there all day drinking beer and making fart jokes. Is that what you REALLY want in your IP? No, I didn't think so. More importantly, if you touch a staticky IP, you get shocked. Is that good? No. My overall opinion of static IPs:

Thumbs down.

I think this can be :closed: now that I put in my two cents. hehehe

-magiaaron

[jaketo]

Static IPs are AWFUL!!! It just sits there all day drinking beer and making fart jokes. Is that what you REALLY want in your IP? No, I didn't think so. More importantly, if you touch a staticky IP, you get shocked. Is that good? No. My overall opinion of static IPs:

Thumbs down.

I think this can be :closed: now that I put in my two cents. hehehe

-magiaaron

Lol magiaaron, your answer is probably the best so far :D

[emike55]

Jaketo how was my post? ;) heh...

[jaketo]

Lol emike :)

Your post was definitely written from a web admin's point of view ;)

And I disagree that 'it is easier for an ISP to assign static IP's' . That's the original and core function of DHCP, to centralise and simplify IP management.

[FlamingKnights]

Ups of Dynamic IP: only good for koc clicking. more secure/safer is a roll of the dice(i think will be explained in downs)

Downs of Dynamic IP: a chance of be more secure or less secure (again i may be wrong but i dont think i am) yes you will get another IP address but if that previous address was used by another person to access bad sites and hackers trying to hack them, when you recieve that IP they will try and hack you even though you haven't done anything. Its harder for companies to keep track of you.

[emike55]

I disagree, to run a dhcp server and maintain it would be harder then just telling people that their IP is whatever. Backups, maintainence, and set up I think are more difficult then just having a list of IP's corresponding to certain people. Granted the difference between the two is so minute it doesn't really make a difference. It is almost as easy for an ISP to give out static IP's as it is to run a dhcp server.

[colleca]

english please you guys! stop Abbreviating everything or at least give us a key to figure out what your saying!

[emike55]

http://www.*********.com/ikind_babel/babel/babel.html
The ***** are geo cities.com...it blanks it out for some reason

Thought that guide doesn't really help you if you don't have a good bit of computer knowledge, you'd probably be better off just googling the acronyms you don't know and getting a full explaination

[jaketo]

english please you guys! stop Abbreviating everything or at least give us a key to figure out what your saying!

Lol colleca, this is Technical Discussion, we'd all be lost without our acronyms, but your point is a fair one :D

I disagree, to run a dhcp server and maintain it would be harder then just telling people that their IP is whatever. Backups, maintainence, and set up I think are more difficult then just having a list of IP's corresponding to certain people. Granted the difference between the two is so minute it doesn't really make a difference. It is almost as easy for an ISP to give out static IP's as it is to run a dhcp server.

And to disagree is your perogative emike, but I'm afraid for you to do so in this case puts you in a very, very small minority ;)

DHCP was developed to reduce the overhead and costs of administering static IP addresses on clients, and suceeds by moving the management of IP addresses away from distributed clients and into a centralised server.

There is nothing to backup or maintain with a DHCP server (beyond normal practices for server health), and configuration is simple. Open the DHCP management tool (which is bundled for example with any Windows server OS but is available and common on every networking platform), define the available IP Scope, define exclusions, define the Scope options (Default Gateway, DNS servers, WINS servers etc. etc. ), configure all your clients as DHCP clients, then away you go.

The real winner with DHCP is the ability to define the scope options in one central place. If for example I'm managing a network of 10,000 client PCs all with static IP addresses and I need to change the IP address of the Default Gateway, I would need to visit each client individually and make that change. If they were all configured as DHCP clients I would make the change once on the DHCP server and this change would propogate out to all the clients automatically, either at next reboot or by using ipconfig /renew.

Whether the clients are on a LAN or a WAN, such as ISP users, the concept is exactly the same.


I've dug around and found quite a good white paper from Sun on DHCP here (http://www.sun.com/software/whitepapers/solaris9/dhcp.pdf). Below are two appropriate and surprisingly non-technical extracts from this paper.

Where DHCP Is Useful

The most common usage of DHCP is to move the management of IP addresses away from the distributed client systems and onto one or more centrally managed servers. These central servers maintain databases of parameter information (addresses, netmasks, and so on) eliminating the need for clients to store static network information on their machines. This specifically obviates the need to configure TCP/IP parameters into client machines. Since most client systems now ship from the factory with dynamically assigned IP addresses as the default configuration, the user need only boot the machine to be up and running with the TCP/IP protocol. This approach saves time configuring or debugging the network environment, reducing the cost of ownership for client systems.

DHCP is particularly useful in the following environments:
- Sites that have many more TCP/IP clients than network administrators. By using DHCP, managers can more effectively manage a large community of client systems.
- Sites where laptops commonly move among networks within the site. By using DHCP, laptop users can plug into the network at any location, and use a local DHCP-assigned IP address to communicate with the local systems.
- Sites that have fewer available TCP/IP addresses than they have clients that need them. Typically, this occurs in dial-up situations, such as an Internet service provider (ISP) environment, where there is a large community of potential users, but only a small percentage of users are online at any given time. Here, DHCP is used to issue the IP address to a client machine at connection time, allowing the DHCP server to reuse the same address once the current client has logged off. Most ISPs have moved to this approach to reduce their need for scarce Internet addresses.
- Sites that frequently need to move the location of services from host to host. Since DHCP delivers the location of services, moving them from one machine to another and changing the appropriate DHCP configuration information means that any DHCP client will automatically pick up the change, without the administrator having to make a trip to the user's machine.
- Sites that support diskless clients. More details on this use of DHCP are provided in the "Client Implementation" section.
- Any combination of the above.

Why DHCP Is Important

According to a number of studies, the largest contributor to the total cost of computing is the administration of distributed clients. These studies, which focus on the cost of ownership for enterprise clients, indicate that the ideal way for corporations to reduce the cost of distributed computing is to move the administration of their client systems to centralized management servers. DHCP can play an important role in reducing the cost of ownership for large organizations by shifting the job of managing network configuration information from client systems to remote management by a small pool of system and network managers. It is becoming increasingly difficult for organizations to acquire additional Internet addresses. Corporations must often justify the requirement for these additional addresses through a long process of needs definition. DHCP helps reduce this problem in two ways:

First, DHCP can be used to manage the limited number of standard, routable IP addresses by issuing the addresses to clients on an as-needed basis, and reclaiming them when the addresses are no longer required. When a client needs an IP address, the DHCP server will issue an available address, along with a lease period during which the client may use the address. When the client is done with the address (or when the lease expires), the address is put back in a pool so it is available for the next client.

Second, DHCP can be used in conjunction with Network Address Translation (NAT) to issue private network addresses to connect clients (through a NAT system) to the Internet. The DHCP server will issue an address to the client that will not route, such as 192.168.*.* or 10.*.*.*

The client uses a NAT system as the gateway machine, which packages up the request with the permanent address of the NAT system. When the response comes back from the Internet, the NAT server forwards the packet back to the client. DHCP enables this procedure without taking up valuable routable addresses, and makes certain that all clients use consistent parameters such as subnet masks, routers, and DNS servers.

[Kalki]

Being a software guy, problems with connectivity and such are issues you call the network grunts about. So I don't really care as long as it works ;)
* Kalki nudges jaketo

[jaketo]

Being a software guy, problems with connectivity and such are issues you call the network grunts about. So I don't really care as long as it works ;)
* Kalki nudges jaketo

Hehehe, we share exactly the same outlook.

In a well-designed and maintained infrastructure users should just be able to do their job without having to worry about technical issues. :)

[Shiggity]

Thanks, Jaketo...I really do feel less stupid now!

I wouldn't want to take a test on the subject, but I think I've got it...at least as much of "it" as I need!!

:)

[emike55]

Your points are valid Jaketo though most of them have to deal with large LANs that are often found in businesses not the WANs that ISP's offer. In such a case of WAN, rarely if ever does the ISP change how it connects to the internet nor is it specifically the ISP's job to set up the client's computer by themselves, generally the client is more on his own with an ISP then in a business LAN where it is specifically the network managers job to change every computer so it connects properly. So dhcp isn't exactly as useful for ISPs as you claim it to be with your business LAN examples. ISP's can easily get away with just printing out a sheet of paper and giving it to the client stating what IP address etc they should use, which is much easier then having to maintain a server that does the same thing automatically, which in a static network it is unneccessary since often users don't ever change IP's. Why run and maintain a server when it's only job is easily done with a spread sheet and pieces of paper that are handed out when they buy service from the ISP?

[jaketo]

Thanks, Jaketo...I really do feel less stupid now!

I wouldn't want to take a test on the subject, but I think I've got it...at least as much of "it" as I need!!

:)


You're welcome Shiggs :D

Your points are valid Jaketo though most of them have to deal with large LANs that are often found in businesses not the WANs that ISP's offer. In such a case of WAN, rarely if ever does the ISP change how it connects to the internet nor is it specifically the ISP's job to set up the client's computer by themselves, generally the client is more on his own with an ISP then in a business LAN where it is specifically the network managers job to change every computer so it connects properly. So dhcp isn't exactly as useful for ISPs as you claim it to be with your business LAN examples. ISP's can easily get away with just printing out a sheet of paper and giving it to the client stating what IP address etc they should use, which is much easier then having to maintain a server that does the same thing automatically, which in a static network it is unneccessary since often users don't ever change IP's. Why run and maintain a server when it's only job is easily done with a spread sheet and pieces of paper that are handed out when they buy service from the ISP?


Thanks emike, but I'm not making points or opinions, I'm stating facts and best practice. A corporate LAN is conceptually exactly the same as an ISP WAN, the user at the desktop in the office is eaxctly the same as the internet user at home.

And sorry to put a spanner in the works, but 99% of the time even if you think you have a static IP address from your ISP, it's a dynamic IP address reserved in DHCP so it never changes regardless of the lease.

DHCP is a no-brainer. It's free, it's massively useful and once you have more than one client, you're already making a cost saving. Any corporate LAN or ISP WAN that doesn't use DHCP for managing it's clients IP addresses should get a new network admin becuase the current one doesn't know what he's doing.

Anyway enough of the heavy technical discussion, I think smory's original questions have been answered by now :D

[emike55]

Heh, okay I'm done arguing on this topic then, the original question has more then been answered =P

Now give me more topics I can debate about with you jaketo ;)

[jaketo]

Cool, ok, although let's choose something more subjective next time :)

Suggestions anyone??

[colleca]

*colleca's brain explodes* :p

anyway....smory, where you anticipating this debate? Smory....*silence*...are you out there *more silence*....hello?

[jaketo]

Lol, smory left this particular building a long time ago :)

[Kalki]

Cool, ok, although let's choose something more subjective next time :)

Suggestions anyone??

Something which isn't infrastructure and/or hardware.
Let's discuss inline x86 assembler or such! :)

[jaketo]

Something which isn't infrastructure and/or hardware.
Let's discuss inline x86 assembler or such! :)

Cool, feel free to go and make a new thread and we'll begin :D

This one I feel has run its course, so now it's closing time :p

:closed: